As Tommy Robinson evades justice in Cyprus, far-right figures including Laurence Fox and Nigel Farage are amplifying tensions and encouraging inciting violence.
Does anyone wish to try and create an adversarial collaboration (AC) on this topic? Rather than winning debates AC is about defining agreements and the scope and definitions of disagreements. It is about building areas of agreement and mutual understanding rather than winning and we need that now.
This situation goes very deep and is considerably more complex than it is presented. These sirens have been calling for years so what has changed? In the 1680's anti catholic riots started in London at the creation of one probably false story but they were set in a wider history of fears.
I make no excuse for the rioters. And I look forward to them doing time. Their acts have been vile.
Exactly correct. I refused to tolerate the anti-Jewish louts prowling outside a London Synagogue last year , I won't tolerate mobs hurling rocks at Mosques either.
Locking up the criminals doing it is not, however, enough. The media need to stop elevating the pied pipers of all of this. The news culture of 'but they give good copy' is simply an excuse to put attention, clicks and sales ahead of social harmony.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve written but what about the disturbances in Birmingham where the people were going about with machetes and knives and the police chief said they were self policing and they had chats with community leaders.
The police and Starmer need to protect the public not just muslims.
The only solution is to rigorously apply the law equally. Given the Met has countless reports concluding it is institutionally racist, I have sincere doubts about its ability to apply the law - with public confidence - equally and without fear or favour. New Met Police leadership is badly, no desperately, needed. I remember last year how alarmed I was at the non-response from the police as anti-Jewish crimes spiked over 1,000% in the UK after Hamas inflicted the worst massacre on Jews since the holocaust. But then, as now, I'll defend the minority from the irrational response. British Muslims had NOTHING to do with the tragic killings of those kids at the dance studio. None. And even if the perpetration did happen to be Muslim, that doesn't in any way justify mobs attacking mosques.
The police need to reform their leadership and restore public confidence, yes, clearly. But we also - those of us who appear on media and have platforms - must stop putting 'good copy' (i.e they'll sell papers/get clicks etc) ahead of social good. Nigel et al have far too much media attention for their bullshit. And that's on the media sadly. In my defence, I've never been a media guy, merely an academic with a platform and appearances. I've never pandered to their crud.
Last year I certainly felt that the policing left British Jews vulnerable during the 'peace marches' that wouldn't have been tolerated had it been any other minority.
I dug into this perception of mine in two pieces for Think Scotland:
1) How the Scottish Left’s antisemitism is explained
The current situation is the inevitable outcome of a process that began years ago and hasn't been addressed
Think of BLM,marches of paramilitary guys in black allowed during Covid,recent Palestinian demos,etc have created a tinderbox of growing resentment among ordinary people Not helped by failure to control immigration with the perception that asylum seekers in hotels are more favourably treated than local people.
Now exacerbated by people like me,who don't agree fully agree with your opinion,being classed as far right
1. I agree that inconsistent policing has caused a breakdown in public confidence in the police force. You won't get an argument from me about that. Which is precisely why I referenced in my piece the anti-Jewish 'protests' last year. I'm sure there is resentment at policing failures (which is why new leadership in the Met is needed)
2. Immigration is a canard. This all erupted because Laurence Fox and other deeply irresponsible people spread the untruth that the girls were murdered by a muslim asylum seeker. Given it turned out they were allegedly killed by a Cardiff born Christian kid, it underscores that for many rioting on the streets bricking mosques and trying to burn down asylum hotels that this is really just any old excuse to target specific minorities.
3. Tommy ten names is a thoroughly disreputable bloke who has repeatedly been jailed. He has fraudulently tried entering the USA, twice almost derailed and forced mistrials in high profile cases and is currently on the run from an arrest warrant. Find another truth teller.
4. Anyone rioting on the streets trying to burn down hotels filled with asylum seekers is far right. If you haven't participated in any of that, you aren't far right.
Disagree that Immigration is a canard There's been growing resentment over a number of years that immigrants get preferential treatment particularly with access to social housing
Your point 3 I think TR is an opportunist but probably no more so than say Humza Youssaf
Point 4 fully agree
My wife and I are oaps and find it difficult to go out in our home city Glasgow at night due to the numbers of foreign men roaming the streets in groups as quite intimidating
Oh I have little time for Humza Yousaf, I wrote a piece called 'A tale of three people: Humza Yousaf, a former Hamas Commander and the cousin who praises extremist preachers' which outlines the worrying proximity he has had to some very disreputable extremist preachers over the years. Humza Yousaf is problematic and certainly seems opportunistic - and worse - in my opinion.
Hi,
Does anyone wish to try and create an adversarial collaboration (AC) on this topic? Rather than winning debates AC is about defining agreements and the scope and definitions of disagreements. It is about building areas of agreement and mutual understanding rather than winning and we need that now.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adversarial_collaboration
This situation goes very deep and is considerably more complex than it is presented. These sirens have been calling for years so what has changed? In the 1680's anti catholic riots started in London at the creation of one probably false story but they were set in a wider history of fears.
I make no excuse for the rioters. And I look forward to them doing time. Their acts have been vile.
That's a really interesting suggestion!
I would like to say "All you ever get from me Dean?" ... I do my best.
It's time that extremists of all flavours were shut down. I can't remember who talked about being tolerant of intolerance, and the dangers of it.
Exactly correct. I refused to tolerate the anti-Jewish louts prowling outside a London Synagogue last year , I won't tolerate mobs hurling rocks at Mosques either.
Locking up the criminals doing it is not, however, enough. The media need to stop elevating the pied pipers of all of this. The news culture of 'but they give good copy' is simply an excuse to put attention, clicks and sales ahead of social harmony.
What we need is our media to stop dividing us by using whatever labels are the flavour of the day.
Far left, far right, black, white, muslim, christian, jew, trans, bi or queer.
We're all human. Dividing us with a label helps no one
The politics of identity is pernicious, you are correct.
I agree with a lot of what you’ve written but what about the disturbances in Birmingham where the people were going about with machetes and knives and the police chief said they were self policing and they had chats with community leaders.
The police and Starmer need to protect the public not just muslims.
The only solution is to rigorously apply the law equally. Given the Met has countless reports concluding it is institutionally racist, I have sincere doubts about its ability to apply the law - with public confidence - equally and without fear or favour. New Met Police leadership is badly, no desperately, needed. I remember last year how alarmed I was at the non-response from the police as anti-Jewish crimes spiked over 1,000% in the UK after Hamas inflicted the worst massacre on Jews since the holocaust. But then, as now, I'll defend the minority from the irrational response. British Muslims had NOTHING to do with the tragic killings of those kids at the dance studio. None. And even if the perpetration did happen to be Muslim, that doesn't in any way justify mobs attacking mosques.
The police need to reform their leadership and restore public confidence, yes, clearly. But we also - those of us who appear on media and have platforms - must stop putting 'good copy' (i.e they'll sell papers/get clicks etc) ahead of social good. Nigel et al have far too much media attention for their bullshit. And that's on the media sadly. In my defence, I've never been a media guy, merely an academic with a platform and appearances. I've never pandered to their crud.
Would you agree that there is two tier policing?
Last year I certainly felt that the policing left British Jews vulnerable during the 'peace marches' that wouldn't have been tolerated had it been any other minority.
I dug into this perception of mine in two pieces for Think Scotland:
1) How the Scottish Left’s antisemitism is explained
https://thinkscotland.org/2023/10/how-the-scottish-lefts-antisemitism-is-explained/
2) “Why aren’t more non-Jews rallying to our side?”
https://thinkscotland.org/2023/11/why-arent-more-non-jews-rallying-to-our-side/
The current situation is the inevitable outcome of a process that began years ago and hasn't been addressed
Think of BLM,marches of paramilitary guys in black allowed during Covid,recent Palestinian demos,etc have created a tinderbox of growing resentment among ordinary people Not helped by failure to control immigration with the perception that asylum seekers in hotels are more favourably treated than local people.
Now exacerbated by people like me,who don't agree fully agree with your opinion,being classed as far right
And that is also inflammatory
1. I agree that inconsistent policing has caused a breakdown in public confidence in the police force. You won't get an argument from me about that. Which is precisely why I referenced in my piece the anti-Jewish 'protests' last year. I'm sure there is resentment at policing failures (which is why new leadership in the Met is needed)
2. Immigration is a canard. This all erupted because Laurence Fox and other deeply irresponsible people spread the untruth that the girls were murdered by a muslim asylum seeker. Given it turned out they were allegedly killed by a Cardiff born Christian kid, it underscores that for many rioting on the streets bricking mosques and trying to burn down asylum hotels that this is really just any old excuse to target specific minorities.
3. Tommy ten names is a thoroughly disreputable bloke who has repeatedly been jailed. He has fraudulently tried entering the USA, twice almost derailed and forced mistrials in high profile cases and is currently on the run from an arrest warrant. Find another truth teller.
4. Anyone rioting on the streets trying to burn down hotels filled with asylum seekers is far right. If you haven't participated in any of that, you aren't far right.
Agree to your point 1
Disagree that Immigration is a canard There's been growing resentment over a number of years that immigrants get preferential treatment particularly with access to social housing
Your point 3 I think TR is an opportunist but probably no more so than say Humza Youssaf
Point 4 fully agree
My wife and I are oaps and find it difficult to go out in our home city Glasgow at night due to the numbers of foreign men roaming the streets in groups as quite intimidating
Oh I have little time for Humza Yousaf, I wrote a piece called 'A tale of three people: Humza Yousaf, a former Hamas Commander and the cousin who praises extremist preachers' which outlines the worrying proximity he has had to some very disreputable extremist preachers over the years. Humza Yousaf is problematic and certainly seems opportunistic - and worse - in my opinion.
https://deanmthomson.substack.com/p/humza-yousaf-the-former-hamas-commander
Stephen Lennon is in Cyprus.
Cyprus has a lot of Russian money.
Could these just be coincidences?